Re: Modern Marvels

Wilson wrote:
> 
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:fugo9p$1b4$2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>> news:fuglck$mrk$2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:fugf54$o05$2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:fug0qt$dkn$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in 
>>>>>>>>> message news:fufp8b$a0q$2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>>> Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Victor Kan" <victor.kan@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>>>
news:5523c98f-b1b9-4a71-877e-9a893f3e32ed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 8:16 pm, Tom Sherman 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <sunsetss0...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The starting wage for a civil engineer with a graduate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger US city is about $40/year, or less than a third of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a doctor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or lawyer would make.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeez, only $40. a year? I will pay you more than that to clean 
>>>>>>>>> up after my cats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ha!  Ed Dolan does a Tom Sherman on Tom Sherman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kinda bizarre though--according to this page, Civil 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Engineers with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bachelors have a higher average starting salary than those 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Masters degree.  Wow, Petroleum engineers too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know, but if I had to venture a guess I'd say civil 
>>>>>>>>>>> engineers who have hung around in college to get masters 
>>>>>>>>>>> degrees and other advanced degrees probably don't have the 
>>>>>>>>>>> reputation of being the "can do" types entering in the field.
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, there is a shortage of civil engineers with graduate 
>>>>>>>>>> degrees. However, the shortage results in more work for the 
>>>>>>>>>> same pay, not higher wages. The level playing field imagined 
>>>>>>>>>> by the libertarian free market advocates only exists in 
>>>>>>>>>> theory; in the real world the system is always gamed to 
>>>>>>>>>> someones [someone's] advantage.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Sherman is well paid for what he does. Where did the idea 
>>>>>>>>> ever come from that engineers need to make as much as 
>>>>>>>>> businessmen. After all, they are just hired hands.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And how do the businesspersons contribute more to the overall 
>>>>>>>> benefit of society?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know. I know.  Businesspersons contribute more to the overall 
>>>>>>> benefit of society by providing goods and services that people 
>>>>>>> want and need at prices they can afford.  Like say food, shelter, 
>>>>>>> medical services, and re***bent bikes (on topic ****tion of this 
>>>>>>> post).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These thing could be provided without vast cor****ations that do 
>>>>>> nothing by buy and sell other cor****ation, investment banks, etc. 
>>>>>> 90% of the structure does not benefit society as a whole, but just 
>>>>>> a small fragment. This is not the free market at work, but the 
>>>>>> opposite.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wasn't aware that 90% of the USA market structure was vast 
>>>>> cor****ations buying and selling pieces of cor****ate paper to each 
>>>>> other.  Where do they get the money that they use in these 
>>>>> transactions?
>>>>
>>>> The money is skimmed off of the backs of labor that actually creates 
>>>> the added value in goods and services.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but none of this sounds plausible to me.
>>
>> So the people making hundreds of millions or billions in financial 
>> markets and services are really personally providing a similar benefit 
>> to society? Hardly sounds plausible to me.
>>
>> -- 
> 
> We're back those people you say make up 90% of the USA market by selling

> pieces of paper to each other using the millions of billions of dollars 
> that you claim they skimmed off the backs of workers.

Look who has the majority or wealth in the US and how they obtain it. It 
is not from doing something positive for society that could not have 
been done by someone else for much less compensation.

-- 
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful