joseph.santaniello@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On May 10, 4:36�pm, Ron Ruff <rruffrr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> On May 10, 6:36�am, "joseph.santanie...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"
>>
>> <joseph.santanie...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>> If that is the case, it doesn't matter which side the spokes are on.
>>> Any "pull" spoke transfers torque to the rim, whichever side it is on.
>>> So then it would make sense to have radial on the DS, not the NDS.
>>> That way the shorter spoke and resulting angle helps make up for the
>>> more inboard placement of the DS flange.
>> It would help a little... but think about what you've done to the NDS
>> spokes. Instead of 19mm and 36mm spacing, you'd get maybe 21mm and
>> 36mm (just guessing). If you put 120kg in the DS, then the NDS would
>> be 70kg... and these are the only spokes transfering torque. Combine a
>> high torque load with the radial and side loads, and it won't take
>> much to make the pu****ng spokes go slack.
>
> I see. Radial DS would make the wheel more laterally stiff,
um, well, it's not so much the radial configuration, it's more the
effective flange spacing.
> but this
> would come at the unacceptable expense of NDS push spokes going slack
> under high torque loads and probably boinging the wheel.
again, not so much torque, more lateral loading.
>
>>> This is totally unscientific and anecdotal, but I just took my light
>>> wheels (28h, 2x DS, radial NDS, narrow AC hub flanges) for a short
>>> test, and did some purposefully agressive side to side sprints. It
>>> seems the wheel only have the occasional flop when I lean the bike to
>>> the right, and the rims feels like it flexes in toward the NDS.
>> You are very perceptive! This is the side that will buckle first,
>> since the NDS tension is lower and the spokes are at more of an angle.
>> You can demonstrate this easily by taking the wheel out and pressing
>> on the edges of the rim, while the axle rests on a solid surface. The
>> wheel will "boing" with lower force when you press towards the NDS.
>>
>>> The
>>> flanges mean there is essentially no dish, so the only real difference
>>> between each side is spoke length and thus angle. The rim does not
>>> seem to flop toward the DS. That makes sense because the NDS is radial
>>> and is in better position to resist.
>> There is dish. Probably ~19mm DS and 28mm NDS. This is the main
>> difference. Oddly, if the spacing (dish) was greater, you'd think the
>> lateral stability situation would get worse... but it actually
>> improves. A narrow spacing improves the tension balance, but this is
>> only an issue if you have spokes going slack from radial loads... for
>> all other loads it makes things worse. Narrow flanges reduce the
>> lateral stiffness a lot, since this goes up exponentially with bracing
>> angle, and they also reduce the load required to make the wheel
>> buckle.
>
> I guess that in general the wider flange spacing of the DA hubs (yet
> smaller diameter) than the AC hubs (38mm, 22mm vs 31mm, 17mm) is what
> is going to make the biggest difference. So radial NDS, 2x DS.
>
> But what about my light wheels that buckle? Should I rebuild those 2x
> both sides?
they have american classics? try rebuilding using a hub with a wider
flange spacing. ****mano are the best for this.
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